Curse

The Super Chilli · Mar 18, 2012, 08:06 AM // 08:06

I just want them to improve the hero's AI within worms

EPO Bot · Mar 18, 2012, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Didn't SOS see enough abuse yet? Now you want to do EVERYTHING with it?

Mintha Syl · Mar 18, 2012, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Super Chilli

I just want them to improve the hero's AI within worms

yeah, at least make them use tunnell without having to micro it <.<

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Mar 18, 2012, 11:10 AM // 11:10

lore? if you have done NF, that story is done
so what would be a problem?
abuse SoS? where do i start with this?

now that i think about it, its gonna be some harder, due to wurms being able to keep up with a desert wurm + a whole group of margonites
dont people want the game to be harder?
i dont mind this lil challenge

and its not that i hate wurms, its just that i want both ways to be possible
and making it possible to walk AFTER NF completed, makes another reason to complete NF (another reason would be to get razah)

no mortal can walk on it, but times change
i dont remember what it was, but not long ago, something changed like that with some certain update
i remember talking about it to someone else, but no idea what it was o_O

ogre_jd · Mar 18, 2012, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPO Bot

Didn't SOS see enough abuse yet? Now you want to do EVERYTHING with it?

No. We just don't want to be forced into the Wurms for the entirety of the Desolation. They are NOT at all fun. Frankly, none of the bar replacements effects are fun - snowball fights, Underworld holiday missions, Siege Devourers, the Wurms, the Norn Blessings, etc...

Fortunately, the holiday ones are optional and only a couple of times a year, Siege Devourers only need to be ridden in two short missions, and Ursan is the only Norn Blessing that actually needs to be used (usually takes only 3 activations 'cos I don't like running ahead to the 3rd set of doors), and that for only one mission. Unfortunately, the Wurms are mandatory for travel and questing through most of the time in the Desolation. If it had been just for, say, getting to the Bone Palace (leaving the sulphur as just another impassable terrain feature like hills and mountains in any other zone for the rest of the Desolation), probably no one would have any problem with it.

Was bar replacement new with Nightfall's development or something? I get the same "Ooh! Look what we can do now! We did all this work on it, so you HAVE to use it!" vibe from it as I got from the vehicles and gravity gun in Half-Life 2... (and guess which parts of HL2 I didn't like :P)

Dewshine Wildclaw · Mar 18, 2012, 03:02 PM // 15:02

If they make it part of Beyond NF and gives a good reason lore wise for the change, then cool.
Just suddenly add it for no good reason besides some people not liking the wurms and with no decent explanation on the sudden change for those who care about lore, please no.

agrios · Mar 18, 2012, 03:49 PM // 15:49

A junundu update, like the one Mithran suggested woulnd't hurt. But..

I'm not saying junundu are weak, they are just boring to play with. As said, they are the worse (bar none) part of Nightfall. I hope they dont come back when/if GW:Beyond reachs Elona.

Evaine · Mar 18, 2012, 06:10 PM // 18:10

I like the idea of an anti-sulphur mask if it comes with an outfit and gear like Corporal Bane's. But that will never happen, so ...

I haven't had any problems with heroes getting out of wurms but I used to. I think it had something to do with the timing of whatever skills they were trying to use when I clicked on the spore - like Death Nova or Life.

I notice they constantly spam skill #6 to capture a skill from a dead thing and then they rarely use the skill they were so quick to capture.

I don't mind the wurms - I think they're an interesting change of pace.

Andemius · Mar 18, 2012, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Okay, people seem to have a lore issue here. Lets not forget, that in NF you killed a GOD, not some kind of demon, not a spirit envoy, a god. Also we put Kormir in Abaddon's place. Also note that my suggestion is for AFTER you finish nf, so it's not removing them, you ought still need to use them to complete the campaign.

If you really want a lore reason to be able to cross the desolation, here's a suggestion.

Kormir, being the new god of secrets, allows you (people who has completed nf) either a "blessing" which allows you to cross, or allows you to know a way to cross (being the god of secrets and whatnot, she ought to know something like that).

Sagittario · Mar 18, 2012, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andemius

If you really want a lore reason to be able to cross the desolation, here's a suggestion.

Kormir, being the new god of secrets, allows you (people who has completed nf) either a "blessing" which allows you to cross, or allows you to know a way to cross (being the god of secrets and whatnot, she ought to know something like that).

If Abaddon could bless the margonotes and protect them from sulphur, Kormir can surely do the same. This sounds good.

EPO Bot · Mar 18, 2012, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

No. We just don't want to be forced into the Wurms for the entirety of the Desolation. They are NOT at all fun. Frankly, none of the bar replacements effects are fun - snowball fights, Underworld holiday missions, Siege Devourers, the Wurms, the Norn Blessings, etc...

Fortunately, the holiday ones are optional and only a couple of times a year, Siege Devourers only need to be ridden in two short missions, and Ursan is the only Norn Blessing that actually needs to be used (usually takes only 3 activations 'cos I don't like running ahead to the 3rd set of doors), and that for only one mission. Unfortunately, the Wurms are mandatory for travel and questing through most of the time in the Desolation. If it had been just for, say, getting to the Bone Palace (leaving the sulphur as just another impassable terrain feature like hills and mountains in any other zone for the rest of the Desolation), probably no one would have any problem with it.

Was bar replacement new with Nightfall's development or something? I get the same "Ooh! Look what we can do now! We did all this work on it, so you HAVE to use it!" vibe from it as I got from the vehicles and gravity gun in Half-Life 2... (and guess which parts of HL2 I didn't like :P)

It part of the roleplaying section of the game. Be in character.

bleh · Mar 18, 2012, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Like the idea but, I would take wurms anyway : O.
Besides the monster groups are huge! all it would be is SF assasins with tank n spank groups.... is it really worth it?
Never had a problem using hero-wurms HM/NM, why the hate lol

?

Flag them in the middle of the group>eat noodles>flag them at next group,
Best way to get easy HM stuff without any effort
and it makes an otherwise boring desert much more interesting and accesable.
Otherwise it'd just be like Elona desert (proph) a stepping stone to the next area.

I dunno, this is all IMO but i think allowing players in the sulphar just means everything will take longer to kill... so whats the point? if the DP gets annoying keep some clovers : /.
/not signed

Mintha Syl · Mar 18, 2012, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andemius

Okay, people seem to have a lore issue here. Lets not forget, that in NF you killed a GOD, not some kind of demon, not a spirit envoy, a god. Also we put Kormir in Abaddon's place. Also note that my suggestion is for AFTER you finish nf, so it's not removing them, you ought still need to use them to complete the campaign.

If you really want a lore reason to be able to cross the desolation, here's a suggestion.

Kormir, being the new god of secrets, allows you (people who has completed nf) either a "blessing" which allows you to cross, or allows you to know a way to cross (being the god of secrets and whatnot, she ought to know something like that).

Erhm...tailoring the will of gods or even the lore in general to change a mechanic just cause a mechanic is boring...would be very very bad imho. I'd probably lose any trust left in the live team, personally, for a thing of that kind.

Gli · Mar 18, 2012, 10:46 PM // 22:46

/signed

They were an interesting novelty at first but they got boring fast, and for a long time now, I can't stand to play in them anymore. When I do stuff in their areas, I just flag all 7 heroes in the middle of the enemies I can't avoid, and alt-tab into something more interesting for a few minutes.

Being able to do that just isn't right anyway: you can't lose any fight with wurms, but you can only win very awkwardly, never with any kind of sense of accomplishment.

StormDragonZ · Mar 18, 2012, 10:49 PM // 22:49

I guess using 3000 HP wurms that just one single wurm can resurrect your entire party is just far too much problem, but the situation with Infusion in Prophecies is perfectly fine and totally is no problem at all.

Seriously.

/notsigned

Gli · Mar 18, 2012, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

I guess using 3000 HP wurms that just one single wurm can resurrect your entire party is just far too much problem, but the situation with Infusion in Prophecies is perfectly fine and totally is no problem at all.

Seriously.

/notsigned

Huh?

Seriously.

Andemius · Mar 18, 2012, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintha Syl

Erhm...tailoring the will of gods or even the lore in general to change a mechanic just cause a mechanic is boring...would be very very bad imho. I'd probably lose any trust left in the live team, personally, for a thing of that kind.

Fair enough, you don't want a lore change. TBH I couldn't care less about the lore of NF, it's got more holes than swiss cheese anyway. In any case that suggestion, which was very minor, would not affect the overall lore of NF if only the god of secrets could grant the ability to travel through the sulphur, since Palawa Joko (at least to the best of my knowledge) was not in Abaddon's favor when he crossed.

Quote:

I guess using 3000 HP wurms that just one single wurm can resurrect your entire party is just far too much problem, but the situation with Infusion in Prophecies is perfectly fine and totally is no problem at all.

The wurms are terrible, there's a reason for the high health... LOW ARMOR! a wurm takes 98dmg from sandstorm, my warrior, takes ~50-60. The attacks are bad, heroes don't manage them well, and the so-called elite skill they have is terrible too. Yes, you can rez your entire party, because you will need to, due to the low armor.

Correct, there is no problem at all with infusion, as it is not necessary. It helps, sure, but if you wanted you could ignore it completely. Wurms HAVE to be used if you want to do quests/VQing in nf. The difference is Infusion helps, Wurms detract.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleh

I dunno, this is all IMO but i think allowing players in the sulphar just means everything will take longer to kill... so whats the point? if the DP gets annoying keep some clovers : /.
/not signed

I belive my heroteam, or any decent player's heroteam would work better than these 8 wurms. I think my crowd control, protting/healing, and damage would be better.

bleh · Mar 19, 2012, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andemius

I belive my heroteam, or any decent player's heroteam would work better than these 8 wurms. I think my crowd control, protting/healing, and damage would be better.

To that i say: Try doing sulfurous wastes ss/lb farm HM (non sulfur bit of run).
Can you do it wurmless:
a) with 5-8 party members? ( I mean easily, not 3x the time)
b) without death being ANY issue at all?
c) with ZERO setup cost.

I understand most, if not all the areas will be doable but if your just doing it slower whats the point?.
Yes its annoying doing a Vanq and having 58% dp cause they are so intent on killing the wurms over and over.(even if its avoidable)
But...Take a Clover... do the non-wurm bits first... Try more casters in wurm party ( more elite spam).

I dunno maybe i just LUB those wurms to much >_>.
But ill take 3000hp at 98dmg sandstorm over 550hp at 50 dmg anyday
Wurm survives 30 hits and has insta res the other........

Dewshine Wildclaw · Mar 19, 2012, 09:52 AM // 09:52

I honestly don't see why some people have a problem with the wurms in the desolation. The places you have to use them is sorta few, I know you can't avoid them entirely if you are hunting titles, but what is it? a few vanquishes, not really that many quests, and you can just get lightbringer points elsewhere, if you don't like it.

The lore IS an issue, just because you don't care about the lore doesn't mean it doesn't matter to others. Some of us love the lore of the entire game, the lore is one of the reasons for a lot of people to play this game. Can't just change the lore around for little reasons. I don't mind adding to the lore, that is how the story develops afterall.
Make it fit with the lore we got, add it in some way that makes sense, perhaps with a NF part of Beyond, could really give a nice twist or something there. I'd rather not see it added just for completing NF, it doesn't seem all that right to me. I might be weird like that, but so be it.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Mar 19, 2012, 09:54 AM // 09:54

remember people, the OP said "once completed elona"

Quote:

Hey, I think once you've completed NF (hence shown you can use the Jundu Wurms), you ought to be able to travel through the sulphur without dying.

so it wouldnt do anything bad to the lore we have in elona, or anywhere for that matter
we keep doing the same until elona has been completed, then we can walk over it, or just keep using the wurms if we wanna